Sirach: Audit Greek-Hebrew text reconciliation #24

New issue

Open

opened 2026-02-21 16:21:11 +00:00 by grams777 · 0 comments

grams777 commented

2026-02-21 16:21:11 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

Summary

The UPDV Sirach translation was produced by reconciling the Greek (LXX) with extant Hebrew fragments (Cairo Geniza manuscripts). This was a difficult process — the Hebrew and Greek diverge significantly in many places, and the Hebrew is fragmentary (not all chapters survive).

A systematic audit is needed to verify the translation choices, especially where Greek and Hebrew disagree.

Key concerns

Where Hebrew survives: Does the UPDV prefer Hebrew over Greek? It should, where the Hebrew is clearly original. But some Hebrew manuscripts show signs of retro-translation from Greek or Syriac.
Where Hebrew is fragmentary or absent: The translation necessarily relies on Greek — are these sections consistent in style and approach with the Hebrew-based sections?
Chapter 24 specifically: Critical for Memra/Wisdom theology research (see below). Hebrew from Manuscript B (Cairo Geniza) needs to be compared against the current translation.
Vocabulary consistency: Are key theological terms rendered consistently across Hebrew-based and Greek-based sections?

Sirach 24 and Memra research

Sirach 24:3 — "I came forth from the mouth of the Most High" — is the earliest known parallel to the Memra tradition (c. 180 BCE, predating Targum manuscripts by centuries). Oesterley explicitly connects Ben Sira's Wisdom to "an hypostatized attribute of God, analogous to the Memra-conception of the Rabbis."

The chapter maps onto several Johannine patterns:

v.3 "from the mouth of the Most High" → John 1:1
v.8 "In Jacob let your dwelling be" (κατασκήνωσον) → John 1:14 (ἐσκήνωσεν)
v.9 "created me from the beginning, before the world" → John 1:1-2
v.21 "eat me… hunger / drink me… thirst" → John 6:35

Once the Hebrew is available, a full Hebrew-to-Johannine pattern comparison should be done alongside the translation audit.

Blocked by

Hebrew text for chapter 24 (Manuscript B, Cairo Geniza). Cowley-Neubauer's 1897 edition only covers chapters 39–49; chapter 24 comes from later Geniza finds.

🤖 Generated with Claude Code

## Summary The UPDV Sirach translation was produced by reconciling the Greek (LXX) with extant Hebrew fragments (Cairo Geniza manuscripts). This was a difficult process — the Hebrew and Greek diverge significantly in many places, and the Hebrew is fragmentary (not all chapters survive). A systematic audit is needed to verify the translation choices, especially where Greek and Hebrew disagree. ## Key concerns - **Where Hebrew survives**: Does the UPDV prefer Hebrew over Greek? It should, where the Hebrew is clearly original. But some Hebrew manuscripts show signs of retro-translation from Greek or Syriac. - **Where Hebrew is fragmentary or absent**: The translation necessarily relies on Greek — are these sections consistent in style and approach with the Hebrew-based sections? - **Chapter 24 specifically**: Critical for Memra/Wisdom theology research (see below). Hebrew from Manuscript B (Cairo Geniza) needs to be compared against the current translation. - **Vocabulary consistency**: Are key theological terms rendered consistently across Hebrew-based and Greek-based sections? ## Sirach 24 and Memra research Sirach 24:3 — "I came forth from the mouth of the Most High" — is the earliest known parallel to the Memra tradition (c. 180 BCE, predating Targum manuscripts by centuries). Oesterley explicitly connects Ben Sira's Wisdom to "an hypostatized attribute of God, analogous to the Memra-conception of the Rabbis." The chapter maps onto several Johannine patterns: - v.3 "from the mouth of the Most High" → John 1:1 - v.8 "In Jacob let your dwelling be" (κατασκήνωσον) → John 1:14 (ἐσκήνωσεν) - v.9 "created me from the beginning, before the world" → John 1:1-2 - v.21 "eat me… hunger / drink me… thirst" → John 6:35 Once the Hebrew is available, a full Hebrew-to-Johannine pattern comparison should be done alongside the translation audit. ## Blocked by Hebrew text for chapter 24 (Manuscript B, Cairo Geniza). Cowley-Neubauer's 1897 edition only covers chapters 39–49; chapter 24 comes from later Geniza finds. 🤖 Generated with [Claude Code](https://claude.com/claude-code)